Who is Free?

Re-posting an old 'thought-dialogue' with Ramana (also called Ramana Maharshi) for 15th August, Indian Independence day
 It has been constructed by taking different parts of his writings/talks and stringing them together.  The continuity of the ideas in this form is my (invention). The individual ideas are his… hopefully!

Politician:

Today is the birthday of Sri Ramana Maharshi. The tallest sons of India ranging from Jamnalal Bajaj, Rajendra Prasad, Rajaji and Mahatma Gandhi revered him so we may consider him one amongst the great freedom fighters of India...

Veteran Freedom Fighter (an old man):

Enough! Enough! You people keep on harping on freedom only to cover up your mal-performance and misdeeds. Fighting for freedom was our big mistake. All the evils of the British have continued and increased with you people, the modern Indian politicians. I know for certain that if Mahatma Gandhi had been left alive he would have said the same. Already in his last days he was saying that power was going into the hands of people that could not be trusted. O Woe! Woe to our motherland!

Economist:

Aha! So you see your mistake. Basically man is an agent that produces some goods and consumes others. Those who participate effectively in this process are prosperous, those who can’t, suffer. Changing governments and making other political upheavals is like changing salesmen in a shop or reorganising the counters. It only disturbs the natural equilibrium of the market. That’s why evicting the British did not solve anything.

Freedom Fighter:

(stunned) Are you actually suggesting that the British were good? They promoted their own products starving our poor, they stole our priceless treasures, they even taxed salt!

Economist:

(laughing) You don’t hear yourself old man. Every problem you’re pointing out is economic not political. But you don’t realize that because you are as much a politician as the politicians you denounce. Ultimately freedom can never be political, it must be economic. Then it was the British that dominated the world, now its the US. Its always the rich country that wins, never mind the politics. What’s the difference whether a high-caste government replaces a low-caste one or whether an Indian government replaces a British one? To me, an economist, the whole world is a market in which political distinctions are at best irrelevant. What use is freedom for a man if he cannot fill his belly? And if he has enough money he can purchase anything he needs or wants.

Freedom Fighter:

Will the Maharshi tell us his opinion? (weeping) Did we risk our lives for the motherland only to be called politicians?

Ramana:

(silence)

Pol:

Surely you have something to say. After all you are a Maharshi.

Ramana:

So you say. I have not said so.

Economist:

Your participation will be of much value. Please tell us what you think.

Ramana:

As for political matters, it is best to keep silent. But let me ask you: You say that if a man has enough money he can purchase anything he wants. Do you mean to suggest that by having anything he wants he can be as happy as he wants?

Economist:

Of course. Poverty is misery.

Ramana:

If having more were to make one more happy, why do all men covet deep sleep in which no possessions remain, not even one’s body?

Economist:

How do you mean ‘The body does not remain’. It remains lying in one’s bed. Likewise the possessions remain.

Ramana:

Do you know it then or do you infer it afterwards? You may dream that you are wandering in different places, are younger or are an altogether different person. Do you claim to be two people simultaneously – the one lying in bed as well as the dreamer?

Economist:

Uh ... Uh... this argument is strange...

Social Worker (a lady):

Yes yes! Hear well the words of the Maharshi. The problems of the world are not as you imagine but you can’t understand because you reduce everything to money. Look for example at the problem of child labour. It’s all men’s greed for money.

Economist:

(condescendingly) It’s not money my dear that’s fundamental, its wealth. That’s the mistake the communists made and look how much grief they caused. And you have provided an example that only strengthens my case. If the parents were not so poor the children would not be forced into labour. As always, wealth is the answer; rotating wealth is what defines man, sufficient wealth is freedom.

Social Worker:

Wealth, market, goods, production, consumption – money, money, money. That’s all you people understand. But these are not the real problems. Children have no fundamental rights and are exploited, women are abused, everywhere casteism prevails. Release women and men from these social bondages and they will be free. That is the only real freedom, not political hoopla nor economic abstractions. These inhuman social evils must go. It is they that are real because they cause pain.

Ramana (Talks pg 490):

To whom do they cause pain?

Social Worker:

To the members of society.

Ramana:

Who says so?

Social Worker:

We see...

Ramana:

So you see and you say. The pain is for you. There are countries which don’t have the caste distinctions that we have. Are they free from trouble? Where there are different coloured communities, one oppresses the other. And when all are of the same colour (eg Africa) genocides are taking place. Elsewhere wars are erupting. Why do you not remedy all these evils?

Social Worker:

There are troubles here also.

Ramana:

Differences are always there. There are not only human beings but animals, plants etc which are suffering.

Social Worker:

We do not mind animals etc. at present.

Ramana:

Why not? If they could speak they would claim equality with you and dispute your claims no less vigorously than human beings.

Social Worker:

But we cannot help it. It is God’s work.

Ramana:

If that is God’s work only the other part is your work?

Social Worker:

It is a man-made distinction.

Ramana:

You need not notice these distinctions. There is diversity in the world. A Unity runs through the diversity. The Self is the same in all. There is no difference in spirit. All the differences are external and superficial. The pain of diversity is overcome by the joy of perception of Unity. It is up to you to seek out that Unity and attain happiness.

Professor:

This conversation with the Maharshi has been truly illuminating. What has evidently emerged is that there is not just one freedom but a gradation of freedoms – political, economic, social – all of which are necessary. And yet none is sufficient. Certainly man is not merely a cell in a political unit. Nor – as the young lady points out – an economic ‘agent’. But you too my dear, with the best of intentions, limit man. You take a man or woman to be merely a social unit. But is it so? You surely know of instances of outstanding men and women who found themselves in economically or socially degraded situations and have conquered their environments. Are they not more free than most of us? The problem is that none of you comprehends the profound joys of intellectual stimulation, of philosophy. And there too is the ultimate freedom – intellectual freedom. If men, even a few, could think for themselves and not accept everything like dumb driven cattle, the world would be infinitely better. And let me add that my suggestions, though less passionate, are more practical than the young lady’s. It is education. Educate people, not just ABC-literacy but a full, solid education. Teach them to read widely, to think profoundly, to philosophise. That is real freedom. And once again I want to thank the Maharshi for showing me this tower of freedoms.

Ramana:

If you want to thank, thank your self. These ideas are your’s not mine.

Professor:

Why do you speak thus Sir? Have I said something that you don’t concur with?

Ramana:

Whether I concur or not is not of much use to you because the surety that one gets from one’s own self cannot be replaced by any external certificate. But let me ask you – Are you happy?

Professor:

(surprised) Why of course! Why do you ask?

Ramana:

Please answer truthfully. Do you sleep well? No anxieties? No worries? No frustrations?

Professor:

But don’t all men suffer so?

Ramana:

Leave others alone. Speak for yourself.

Professor:

Well ... When you put it thus I must confess that I do suffer all these problems, perhaps more than most.

Ramana:

You say that you suffer more than most. How do you know?

Professor:

Well when I was young and did not know much I was like others: more carefree and did not suffer so. But today I understand acutely the miserable state of the world we are living in and the terrible times that are to come. Hence inevitably I suffer.

Ramana:

(Ulladu Narpadu Anubandham) So your ‘understanding’ which is the fruit of your vast learning and profound thinking makes you suffer. And you want everybody to be like you so that we can all suffer with you in your ‘world of intellectual freedom‘?

Yogi:

Bravo Sir! All these worldly people think that they have the right to talk of freedom. Ha! Only a spiritual man who has renounced the world and spends all his time in yoga can understand freedom; it is nothing other than mukti!

Ramana:

What do you mean by freedom or mukti?

Yogi:

Having the mind in control.

Ramana:

And your mind is in control?

Yogi:

Of course! I can control my breath and sit with my mind absorbed in Brahman for any length of time.

Ramana:

Let us leave aside the jargon shall we? and concentrate on your definition of freedom. Since mind is essentially a bundle of thoughts, if you say your mind is in control, may I take it that your thoughts are in control?

Yogi:

That’s what yoga is all about. Of course my thoughts are in control!

Ramana:

Are you sure?

Yogi:

Yes!

Ramana:

Are you free from the thought: ‘I am free’?

All:

(laughter)

Professor:

Sir you have exposed the yogi’s arrogant and hence errant position. However in so doing you have also demolished the last dim hope that we had. I – and I’m sure many others – have some vague notion that someday, perhaps in old age, we will get down to the pursuit of God by practising yoga.

Ramana (Chadwick) (laughing):

So you want to lead a wayward life and say ‘Ram Ram’ when you die so you go to heaven? No there are no short cuts. Your death will be as your life was.

Professor:

So for us worldly people is there no hope? Is freedom then a chimera? Must we ever live in bondage?

Ramana (Spiritual Instruction Ch. 4):

Yes, freedom, liberation, mukti is a chimera but no, we need not ‘ever live in bondage’. In fact we are never in bondage. And what do you understand by ‘worldly’? If you renounce the world will you go and sit on a cloud?

Professor:

You talk in riddles Sir!

Ramana:

Who is it that sees riddles? Who talks of freedom and bondage?

Professor:

Why I Sir who sit before you!

Ramana:

And who is that ‘I’?

Professor:

I ... I ... I don’t know what you mean to ask Sir...

Ramana:

Observe that ‘bondage’, ‘freedom’, ‘sorrow’, ‘joy’ are are all your thoughts, thoughts in your mind. Are you the mind? If you take yourself to be only these then you can never be free from them because they are you. But are they you or only your’s?

Professor:

They are only mine, they are not me.

Ramana:

Then freedom, bondage etc apply only to your mind, not to you.

Yogi:

Is it not necessary to realise this? And is not realisation of this the purpose of yoga?

Ramana:

If what you seek to realise is true, is real, how can you re-realise it? And if false, what would be the value to that realisation?

Yogi:

I don’t understand.

Ramana:

That which comes, goes, that which never comes, never goes. As long as you think of realisation as something that will happen one day, it will also go one day. Know that it is ever with you.

Professor:

Intellectually, what you say is perfect but it somehow does not satisfy. What is one to do?

Ramana:

(smiling) That it does not satisfy is again only a thought. Don’t do anything, don’t think anything, just be still.

Professor:

But that’s impossible.

Ramana:

Yes, as long as you feel that it is impossible, you need to make effort towards that state.

Yogi:

How?

Ramana: (Self Enquiry, Who am I)

In all manner of ways possible one should endeavour gradually not to forget one’s true Self. If that is accomplished, all will be accomplished. The mind should not be directed to any other matter. When other thoughts arise one should not pursue them but should enquire: ‘To whom did they arise?’. It does not matter how many thoughts arise. As each thought arises, one should inquire with diligence, ‘To whom has this thought arisen?’ The answer that would emerge would be, ‘To me.’ Thereupon if one inquires, ‘Who am I?’ the mind will go back to its source, and the thought that arose will become quiescent.

Yogi:

Is this sufficient?

Ramana:

Yes. The inquiry ‘Who am I?’ is the principal means for the removal of all sorrow and the attainment of the supreme bliss. If in this way the mind becomes quiescent in its own state, Self-experience arises of its own accord without any effort. All ways converge into Self-Investigation, and that in the end gets quenched like the fire that burns camphor without leaving any sediment. Therefore, it is sufficient.